The Get Healthy Tampa Bay Podcast

E88: Charting Balance, How Dr. Mary Leung Helps Physicians Rediscover Joy in Medicine

• Kerry Reller

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Welcome to the Get Healthy Tampa Bay Podcast with Dr. Kerry Reller! This week, I am thrilled to have Dr. Mary Leung with us, a dedicated hematologist oncologist and a life coach for physicians. In this episode, we delve into how Dr. Leung transitioned from traditional medical practice to coaching, helping physicians manage stress, avoid burnout, and achieve work-life balance. We explore practical strategies for improving workplace efficiency and emotional well-being, both in healthcare settings and beyond. Dr. Leung shares her personal journey and the impactful lessons on maintaining a fulfilling life while excelling in a demanding career. Tune in to gather insightful tips on creating a balanced life in and out of medicine.

Dr. Mary Leung is a physician who is board-certified in internal medicine, medical oncology and hematology. She is also a certified life coach who is passionate about serving physicians who are stressed, overwhelmed and burned out.

Dr. Mary was working and charting after hours many nights and weekends until life coaching transformed her life. She is now going home at least 2.5 hours earlier than before, with all her clinical work completed for the day. From the depths of her own experience, Dr. Mary founded Shining With Gratitude MD. Her passion and mission is to guide other physicians through their unique situations — so they can feel better, have more time outside of their clinical work, regain control and have more clarity. Her hope is for physicians to rediscover joy in life and in medicine. Dr. Mary believes that if physicians can enjoy practicing medicine again, they can take better care of their patients. Through renewal, they can shine brighter for their families and all the lives they touch.

0:28 - Introduction to Dr. Mary Leung
0:42 - Dr. Leung's Background and Career
1:20 - Transition to Coaching and Personal Development
7:07 - Impact of Administrative Burdens on Physicians
8:51 - Techniques for Improving Daily Efficiency
15:13 - AI and Its Role in Modern Medicine
17:38 - Achieving Work-Life Balance
24:22 - Client Success Stories and Approaches
26:09 - Advice for Non-Medical Professionals
28:50 - Family Gratitude Practices and Final Thoughts

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Kerry:

Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the Get Healthy Tampa Bay podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Kerry Reller, and today we have a very special guest, Dr. Mary Leung welcome to the podcast. And why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Mary:

Yeah. Thank you so much, Dr. Kerry for having me today. So I am Mary Leung and I am a full time hematologist oncologist. I'm also a life coach for physicians who are stressed, overwhelmed, and burned out to leave work on time so that they get to enjoy life and enjoy medicine again

Kerry:

awesome. So one of the greatest things I like to do when I talk to everybody, when they have these like unique niches in their profession, because clearly you're not just a hematologist oncologist, you're doing a lot more than that. So I like to ask how you got into that and then maybe how you got into owning your own business and the coaching and everything.

Mary:

So Coaching was never on my agenda for the longest time because I didn't even know what it was. I think growing up, it was just kind of a straight path that my parents they're retired, but they're both, Physicians and they really showed the passion and they really enjoyed their work. They would talk about patients like bounce off ideas from each other sometimes at dinnertime and I thought, Oh, yeah. You know, that's a good way to help people. And it was just a, yeah I just went to that direction, studied hard and, got into medical school and residency and I really enjoyed the long term relationships with patients. And I wanted to help people that way. So it was, really that simple thought that got me into medicine. And I decided to get into oncology because I just really like to have that kind of almost expected time that you would leave the world for the most part, of course, there are always surprises, but during that process, really to help the patients and their families to go through that difficult time in a better way, you know, in with the support, not just medically, but also emotionally to to support the patient. So the short version of this is that I was just overworked. I had full loads of patients and probably took 25, 30 patients a day seeing a mix of hematology and oncology patients. And I would be doing their patient documentation late at night, you know, after seven o'clock, I would go home just to see my kids so they could recognize me. And after they went to bed, I would still be doing the patient charts sometimes also over the weekends. And that was terrible. I was just going through the motions day in and day out. I couldn't really Make a great connection with my patients just because I was so emotionally and physically exhausted. And then, so fast forward to the pandemic, no one wanted the pandemic, but something good came out of it for me was that for a while, I was only seeing a third of the usual patient load, and I actually had time, you know, I went home on time or earlier than my scheduled clinic time, and I felt wonderful, because I felt like, wow, I actually had a life. I could spend quality time with my family. I could even bake with my daughter just like everyone else did. I picked up baking and it was wonderful. So I thought, well, what about having something similar? You know, having a life outside of medicine even when I went back to a full schedule of patients. So during that time also, I was introduced to life coaching, no clue what it was. I was like, well, you know what, this is a time to explore and I wanted to feel better. Because you know, other times I wouldn't have even time to even think about it. So then that really opened up my eyes. I was like, wow, how we think about our situation really affects how we feel. And, and that affects how we do things. And I was like, that really makes sense. And no one taught me about this. And I really wanted to learn more about life coaching. So I signed up for a certification program, more to know deeper about it, not thinking about having my own, coaching business. And I felt great. Emotionally, I had more pleasant emotions rather than feeling mostly frustration anger, or overwhelm. And I thought, well, this is really wonderful. And at the same time, while Doing that, I was in that in the coaching program for myself to be coached. And I was working with a physician coach to really figure out the biggest problem for me at that time was my Clinic hours, you know, was actually the after clinic hours that I was charting hours after seeing the last patient and so we were working on that just really focusing on how I could be more efficient and So within about three months or so instead of going home after seven still having Work to do and and that was the time that I was already back to seeing the full schedule of patients I was able to go home by 530 with all my work done and now These days I'm seeing about 20 to 25 patients a day and I am going home by 5 consistently, so That being said it's like well, this is great and I understand that You charting and patient documentation and after Work hours are really the biggest problems for a lot of physicians. So how about if I could help them do the same to leave work on time, so they get to do things outside of medicine, they get to live a life, they have better quality of life, better emotional health, and they get to take better care of the patients. So I'm like, this is a win win situation. So that's how I started my company called Shining with Gratitude MD really to help physicians to do the same thing that I did.

Kerry:

I love that story. I think that it's such an important journey, even from the beginning, like with your parents being physicians, right? So I think The physicians of that generation really had that passion about medicine. They were able to do their charts and like leave. I mean, I see this in my own father who, you know, he's on paper and never took anything home with him. He took off when he chose to. I mean, granted he's in private practice, right. But when he wanted to come to our soccer games or coach our team, like he had that ability, but then. Bring on these electronic records and all these other overburdens from, pharmacies and I don't know, insurance companies and everything, it's kind of changed a lot. And we have so much administrative burden that is just overwhelming I think for a lot of doctors and I think a lot of patients don't always understand that. And then also you're like in the hematology oncology, which I think is already very emotionally Charged and stressful position, like, I think that would be even more hard to handle with all that patient load and not just bringing home the administrative part, but also the emotional part of it can be really challenging too. So, I definitely feel for you and your journey and I don't know how you exactly stumbled upon life coaching, but like things for the pandemic, we kind of just opened up and we were open to new things, which was a good thing. And then other people had a more hard time during it. But for those that like you found something new, I think it's, it's an amazing story. So leading you into a new direction with your business, I know you're helping lots of lots of people now. So how do you help them? How do you approach, how do you get them home by five or 5 30, instead of going home at seven and doing their pajama charting?

Mary:

Yeah. So I think one of the biggest thing is really how I basically share with, you know, what I do and cause it works and what the physicians that I coach can do, because this is not, and, and it's actually not even just for physicians is for anybody it's the first thing is really to figure out how you want your day to be like. You know kind of like your mindset. It's really if you decide that today is going to be a manageable day or today is going to be a good day. You're going to make it happen, and you're going to want to make that happen and believe that it's going to happen. And you're going to be more energized to doing it and you're going to take actions that will make it happen. So for me, it's like every day I say to myself, when I wake up in the morning, well, first of all, I'm thankful, you know, I'm thankful that I'm still alive for another day. I mean, it is, something that we take for granted. But then, it is a really big thing because you know what, accidents happen, cancers happen and it is great to have another day on earth to make a difference. So then I decide that, okay, today is going to be a great day, no matter what happens. So when you say, no matter what happens, meaning that you're going to take into account of any surprises, good or bad, that will come your way. You're not going to let them affect how you're feeling, you know, of course, Initially, you may be like, what? What's going on? Or you may be frustrated or any of those negative emotions. That's okay. We're human beings. And, instead of just dwelling on that you focus on, okay, how can I make this a good day or a great day? And I do this with my little team, in my office of medical assistant and the nurse that I work with that day'cause we kind of do a little rotation'cause I'm in a group practice. So I work with different team members in the week. And, so we just say that, you know, today is gonna be a great day. We're gonna work great as a team and I think that sets the tone for the day and I think throughout the day, you just remember what your goal is, for me, it's I want to go home, I want to take great care of the patients and go home on time, so it's like, whatever you do as a profession, remember your goal. You set the tone of the day, remember your goal, and then you go toward it. You have to focus the concentration, and you minimize your distraction. And throughout the day, it's so important to really do some celebration, meaning like you're not throwing a great party, you know, having champagne, not not not like that. But celebration, meaning that you're just really kind of like acknowledging your accomplishment. It could be like a little small win. Like for me, for example, it's like, great, I took care of two patients. Now I have 20 more to go, you know, and, and it's like two down 20 to go something like that. And then it could be five down, or like, Oh, this difficult situation, I actually handle it great. And the patient took it well, you know, anything you can, you know, you can think of that. Maybe you used to take it for but why not celebrate it? And that's like a little Dopamine, like a little happiness, like a little infusion or a little sprinkle for you. And that's another fuel source that you can use to really fuel your day and, and it makes it faster. It makes it lighter and you're going to be more efficient just because you're able to concentrate better. So I think those are just really, you know, it sounds simple at the same time is it may not be easy to do initially, but if you do it consistently, you'll be like, wow, this is really a great way to start my day. And of course, you allow yourself some imperfection, and you don't have to do everything perfect. I mean, you know, of course, if you're a neurosurgeon, yes, you know, we want you to be 100 percent precise. But say, for example, writing my notes, You know, the patient notes, yes, you got to include all the necessary information correctly. But at the same time is like grammatically, you don't have to make sure that every single spelling it's correct. Like, you know, you just want to get the main idea across. You can do B plus work for the charting and you take great care of the patients, physically and emotionally. So I think those are kind of some of the things that we can do to really, cut down on the time because you know what, if you instead of writing an A plus chart, and you write a B plus quality chart, which is still great you may cut down like 30 seconds or even a minute. And if you do this 25 times. That's some time, right? And then, you know, if you can also minimize distractions. So say, you know, like, if you're mindful of where your mind is going, you know, if you if you find that you're being distracted to think about something else, bring it back. And if you're tempted to look at your phone, social checking social media, which a lot of us do, maybe do something to minimize that, like say I know, if a physician actually would lock their phone or put it elsewhere that they couldn't find or they couldn't get a hold of easily or turn off the notifications Or especially for email notifications, because when you hear that ding, you know, that little alarm, you're like, Oh, kind of curious. Let me think about or check what's the messages about? And then your mind is already distracted. So maybe just not have that email notification and just a scheduled time in your day to to check emails, check messages and you know, all those things. So I shared a lot of things, but I think the main idea is really set the tone for the day. And have a great attitude and be able to focus, minimize the distractions and you'll be surprised how much time you would have saved.

Kerry:

absolutely. I can't even imagine having a ding every time I got an email. I think

Mary:

Yes.

Kerry:

I would die. I hopefully definitely don't have that on. D o you, I was just gonna randomly ask, but with all the AI artificial intelligence that's bringing into the medical community, do you have any opinion on that? Or do you talk to anybody about that?

Mary:

I, I guess I'm still learning about it. I have actually kind of seen a demonstration on the AI generated charting, which is quite interesting. And it's actually quite good. And because, you know, it's kind of how that program works is that. I would just be in the room, you know, talking to the patient normally of course, you know, whatever you want to include in the note, you would, you know, want to say it out loud in a sense that, for example, the physical exam, what your significant findings are and what your plan is going to be. So afterwards, then the note, which is in the typical medical record format, it's out and It looks like you don't really have to do a lot of correction. So for some people, that may be a really time saving tool that you can use. I think I am personally, I'm still kind of cautious about doing AI. And of course you have got to make sure that it's kind of HIPAA compliant, like, all the security and those things. So I think, if it's used correctly, it's going to be very helpful in every field. And of course, at the same time, it's like criminals can kind of abuse it, to use it, like, say what if they use AI to kind of like in medicine, for example to kind of imposter You know, a doctor or something to tell patients to do something. And, I'm just thinking like, for example, they're using AI for presidential campaigns, you know, there's some bad people doing that. So I think just to be cautious about that. But I think AI in general, it's going to be a very useful tool in all the fields. Yeah,

Kerry:

agree. I've dabbled with it, but to be determined. And then I know some people might use scribes or anything like that to help them get out of the office easier as well. But I guess if you want to talk any more about that, that's fine. But I was going to ask kind of more how you balance everything. We always talk about this work life balance thing and what's your magic recipe for that.

Mary:

so I would say first of all, you know, the work life balance for each person is different. So for each person, you got to know what it is for you, you know, what is a work life balance and this can also change over time, say when you have little kids versus you have kids in high school that's going to be different most likely and also if the nature of your job changes that, you know, also changes too. So I think the first thing is you got to know for yourself what the work life balance is to you. The second thing Is you got to believe that it is possible to achieve that you may not be there yet, but just believe that it is possible, because I always say that if you don't believe in something, you're not going to work toward it, just like if you're learning how to ride a bicycle, if you don't believe that you can ride it, eventually, you're not going to put in the effort, or you may not even try to do it. So I tell you the belief is so important. third thing is that, you don't have to do it all. Meaning that, yes of course we have a lot of hats like, a lot of professionals, especially moms, you're mom, you're wife, you're in your working profession. You may be a daughter, you're all these different things. And yes, you're wearing all these hats, but that doesn't mean that you have to do every single thing yourself. So it is important to prioritize your day to see what is important to set boundaries too, you know you have to allow yourself to say no to something and delegate some things out. Like if something that is really say not that important doesn't bring you joy but you kind of still have to do it. I have someone else doing it, so just say quick example. Like, I used to think in my clinic day that, Oh, I have to call back every single patient, when they call me, I have to call them back. If I have results, I have to be the one telling them what it is. That's not true. I mean, you know. It's like the CEO of a big company, he or she is not doing every single thing, so it's like, Oh, you know what, it is okay to have the nurse call back the patient for me for most phone calls, and some of them, I may still choose to call them, like if it's a really bad Cat scan report, I may choose to call them and let them know, Hey, this is what's going on. But at the same time, it's like, if simple things like, oh, you know the result shows that you have low iron and and you need to take iron pills, you know, something like that. I would just say, whatever you can delegate, you delegate. And even like, say, at home. So, yes, I do my best to spend time with my kids. I mean, they're older now. They're in the teens and, and it's okay, like, it's okay for me not to have to cook for them all the time, maybe I'll just do that over the weekends. I mean, I'm very grateful for a wonderful husband who has flexible schedule. But just for example, like you can ask someone else to help or maybe order meals sometimes, so you kind of like see what is important for you like maybe to go to a soccer game. It's the more important thing than than preparing a meal for for your kids. You know, something like that. So it's like, you don't have to do it all. And you kind of pick and choose, you know, what you want to do and delegate it out. And, and of course, it's very important is two things. taking breaks, you know it's, it's kind of sometimes count. It may be counter intuitive. It's like, I have no time. How can I take breaks? It is exactly the opposite. It's because you need to take the break to recharge physically and mentally. So you have more energy to go on. And because if you don't take a break, You're going to slow down, especially the second half of the day, you're going to take longer to do the same thing. You're going to take longer to make a decision. So that adds up to be you're going to be less efficient, and you're not going to have that work life balance that you want. So taking breaks, scheduled breaks, not unintentional breaks, not like, oh, I'm wandering off to see what's going on on the internet, not not like that, but just kind of scheduled that Hey, I just want to take a break from what I'm doing right now, even just for three minutes that really helps. And of course, remember to take lunch breaks, that's very important. And I learned from my own mistakes that I used to really think that working straight through, that's the way to go. And I was just so exhausted after lunch, lunchtime, quote, unquote, lunchtime, because I did not take lunch. So that's not the way to go. Definitely take breaks. And also in terms of breaks, it's like vacations, really take the time to take a few days off. And when you're off, please be off and not worrying about what's going on at work, make sure that you have a good coverage systems that no one is going to bother you. So you're really off, mentally, physically, emotionally from work. The last thing is gratitude. I think gratitude is just something is so beautiful and it's so important. And it's so easy to do because you just really looking for something that you're grateful for that you're appreciating. And why is that important is because, when we take things for granted, we're just thinking that, Oh, we should have more, we're just looking for, like, we always feel like we're lacking something. When we're grateful, We're kind of, always thinking kind of more in the abundance side that we're really thankful for what we have, not to say that we're complacent. That's not the same. But we're just grateful for what we have right now. And we can also say that, oh, you know what? Maybe we can find out what we can do more from that point, and I think, just to be grateful for, like, say, grateful for that patient being nice, or grateful for that my kids are doing great, they're healthy, grateful for my own health, just really things like that, I think that's really, what I learned, in these few years that has helped me, you know, I'll just say initially, it may not be obvious to think that gratitude and efficiency are kind of hand in hand, but they actually do go hand in hand because when you're grateful, you're going to be having that more pleasant energy as your fuel, and you're going to be doing things, you know, faster and more focused.

Kerry:

It seems so simple, right? I

Mary:

and it's doable.

Kerry:

Right, right. Yeah. I think it's, I mean, it's amazing. Can you give me any examples of your clients or of another person that you helped and made things better for them?

Mary:

you know, so I think a lot of physicians they look for me for charting efficiencies. And so I just recently I have one of them internal medicine physician clients. So she used to have the charts and her billings I think it was, it's like at least one month behind. And she sees patients four days a week. And so, we talked about, basically it's what, what I shared, in a more detailed way during our weekly coaching sessions. And and I'll just say about four sessions later, and, and I was like, Oh, you know what went well this past week. And she told me that, I finished all my charts the same day. And I'm like, wow, that's amazing. I mean, you know, it's like, really, I'm just so happy because, this is what I'm here for. Besides taking care of my patients, it's really this different way of being able to help other physicians and it's just seeing that difference. And, and it's really the simple steps that we talked about, you know, the gratitude, the focus, the delegation. And you know, it's, it's just really heartwarming and, and it's so encouraging that, you know what, this is not a unicorn thing. And this is something that everyone can do. And even people who are not in medicine, any profession, or even, stay home mom, anyone can do this.

Kerry:

Yeah, I was going to ask did you have any like specific recommendation or comments to someone who isn't like in medicine, would you have anything else to add for that for our listeners who aren't in medicine?

Mary:

Yeah, I think that whatever you do, you know, it's so important. Like, I think sometimes I have talked to stay at home moms that they kind of feel guilty about not working, especially that they studied to be a profession or they used to work and because of kids and all they stopped working. And I say, well, you know what, what you're doing is so important. You are allowing your spouse to go to work full time without worrying about what's going on in the home for it. And, what you do is so amazing. And imagine if you have to pay for someone to do the work that you do, it's going to be a lot of money, and I think that, yes, you're a stay at home mom, it also still doesn't mean that you have to do it all. Like, you can kind of like, say, for example, you can carpool with your friends for transportation. Or even like the meals, and all these different things are cleaning, you know, cleaning the house. And I think that, again, it's just so important to really know yourself, to know what you want, and what you think it's good for you and work toward it. Because, if you don't have a goal or a direction, then you don't really know where to take your brain to. So it's important to know, okay, at this time, at this stage of your life, what the work life balance is like for you and what is important for you, like how you want to spend it with your family. And just believe that it's, possible and delegation and really just set your boundaries. You don't have to say yes to every single thing. And actually you shouldn't say yes to every single thing. And really kind of Delegate or just not do it if it's not really important for you or your family. Take breaks vacation times. I think that's a good bonding time with with the family and it's good really I think as a family that's also good emotionally to you know, the bonding the emotional health of and just to be able to do that because before you know it Your kids go to college and then they're like gone so and of course the last thing is really gratitude. Just practice it, have it be part of your life. And just be grateful. You don't have to, you know, other people don't have to know what you're grateful for all the time. You just have to know it yourself. So I think in other words, it's just you got to know what you want and be living in alignment with your values and be grateful.

Kerry:

Do you do any sort of like family gratitude thing? Like, do you guys sit down at dinner or do you do something in the evening? I'm just curious if you recommend that to anybody as well.

Mary:

So for the kids, I think I like to ask them, what went well today before bedtime. And it's like, kind of like a little sharing time. I mean, sometimes they're like, I had some, like tasty food or something it can be just something simple. I'm like, okay, if you're grateful for that, that's wonderful, and sometimes it's like, for me, it's like, if I get to eat some really delicious chocolate, that's like amazing too. So, I think especially for the younger kids, you can just ask them, so what went well and have them give you a free three things, you know, I think that's a little great. Exercise and also bonding time to just share because you can expand on that and I think that to end the day, or the night it's just a good way to do it before bedtime. And then you'll be refreshed and renewed in the morning.

Kerry:

I like that. Sometimes I'm trying to pull teeth for my kids. I'm like, okay, what happened today? What'd you do? But yeah, that's, that's a nice way. I like a beautiful way to end the day. So where can people find you if they want to work with you or follow you?

Mary:

Yeah, sure. So my website is www do Shining with gratitude md.com and my email is shining with Gratitude md@gmail.com. I'm also on LinkedIn, Mary Leung MD and Facebook Mary Leung.

Kerry:

Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. This was a lot of fun talking with you and hearing your expertise. And if anybody needs a primary care allergy or obesity medicine doctor in Clearwater and Palm Harbor, our number is 727 446 1097. And I hope that everybody stays tuned for next week. Thank you so much, Dr. Mary.

Mary:

Thank you so much for having me.

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Dr. Kerry Reller

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