Time Changes & The Impact of Social Media with Dr. Marie Dona, MD, PMH-C

Welcome to the Get Healthy Tampa Bay Podcast with Dr. Kerry Reller! This week I am joined by Dr. Marie Dona to discuss the intriguing impacts of daylight savings time on our mental health. We touched upon how losing an hour of sleep can significantly disrupt our daily routines, mood, and even increase feelings of anxiety and depression. Shifting gears, we also delved into the complex world of social media usage among children and adolescents. Dr. Dona and I explored the mixed benefits and potential dangers of their online presence, stressing the importance of parental guidance and setting firm boundaries to ensure a safe and beneficial digital experience. This conversation brought to light essential considerations for mental well-being in our rapidly changing times.

Dr. Marie R. Dona, M.D is a Triple Board Certified Physician who specializes in Child, Adolescent, Adult and Perinatal Psychiatry and Obesity Medicine. She sees a wide variety of patients with numerous conditions and concerns. She has extensive experience in the treatment of depression, anxiety, PTSD, ADHD, OCD, mood disorders, psychosis, addiction, LBGTQ concerns, perinatal mood disorders, eating disorders, lifestyle medicine and more.

Training matters, and Dr. Dona is a medical physician first. She completed 4 years of medical school and then continued her specialization in psychiatry. She completed her general psychiatry (3 years full time) training at Albert Einstein Medical Center in Philadelphia, and fellowship training (2 years full time) at Thomas Jefferson University Hospital in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania where she served as both chief resident and chief fellow respectively. During training, she would often moonlight and has extensive experience in emergency rooms, hospitals, inpatient psychiatric hospitals, partial hospital programs, and outpatient programs. Her therapeutic approach incorporates different elements of supportive, CBT and psychodynamic psychotherapy. Dr. Dona offers patient centered, individualized care to clients of all ages, races and backgrounds.

00:28 Introduction to Dr. Marie Dona
01:00 Journey to Florida
01:56 Daylight Savings Time & Mental Health
03:00 The Sleep Disruption Dilemma
04:55 Routine, Anxiety, and Depression
13:47 Social Media and Children
24:35 Parental Guidance and Social Media Safety
34:32 Closing Remarks and Guest Info

Connect with Dr. Marie Dona
Website: www.donawellnessclinic.com
Instagram: @donawellnessclinic
Facebook.com/donawellnessclinic

Connect with Dr. Reller
My linktree: linktr.ee/kerryrellermd
Podcast website: https://gethealthytbpodcast.buzzsprout.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ClearwaterFamily
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/clearwaterfamilymedicine/
Clearwater Family Medicine and Allergy Website: https://sites.google.com/view/clearwaterallergy/home

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Transcript

Kerry: 0:28

Okay. Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the Get Healthy Tampa Bay podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Kerry Reller. And today we have a very special guest, Dr. Marie Dona. Welcome to the podcast.

Marie: 0:39

Thank you so much for having me, Dr. Reller. I really appreciate it. I'm really excited for today.

Kerry: 0:44

Me too. And tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.

Marie: 0:48

So my name is Dr. Marie Dona. I'm a child adolescent adult perinatal, which is a reproductive psychiatrist. And I also have a specialization in obesity medicine. So I know that's a lot.

Kerry: 1:00

Yeah, it is a lot. I did not know you had that either. I mean, you're definitely doing a little bit of everything kind of like I do, but you know, the more the merrier. So it's great. And you trained up in Boston and you are now in Riverview, Florida, correct?

Marie: 1:12

Yeah. So I did my undergraduate training in Boston, but then I did all my residency and fellowship training in Philadelphia.

Kerry: 1:19

Oh, okay. Great. And now you're in Florida in the Tampa Bay area. So welcome. We're happy to have you. It's very exciting. And well, today we're recording on a very special day, which would be, you know, spring forward, like daily, daily savings time. And I'm recording out of my closet for the first time because my kids are going crazy outside, but luckily they don't have school. So we get one more day of recovery from the impact of daylight savings time. And I think you brought up an excellent, you know, topic of how this can be important for mental health and, you know, kids and adults. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what you think about that?

Marie: 1:56

Yeah, definitely. So I was actually thinking about this before thinking about this topic and that, you know, it's spring break right now in Tampa Bay area. And I was wondering, I was like, I wonder if they did this specifically because they knew daylight savings would have potentially impacted the kids schedule. But I have no idea if that's actually what they meant to do. But I was thinking about that because it is kind of disruptive. So that's what I was thinking about today specifically just because I'm a little bit off. My family's a little bit off. I have a six month old baby who's a little bit off today. So I think that's why I was thinking about daylight savings in particular, and how it could be interesting and how it does affect mental health in a lot of different ways.

Kerry: 2:34

Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely feeling off. We were up later than normal because we were at a gala for our school benefit thing and, you know, coming and waking up way later and then it's even an hour later. I'm, we're all messed up today and it also affects, you know, my hunger and nutrition and everything like that as well and how we're going to balance that day. So well, what can you tell us about how the jumping forward in time kind of messes us up?

Marie: 3:00

I mean, honestly, the basics, so the big one is sleep. So in March, well the spring daylight savings, you're losing an hour of sleep because you're jumping ahead in time. So a lot of people, they will probably go to sleep around the same time, but then say they only used to getting like six, seven hours of sleep that's only going to be like five to six hours. And most people need around seven to nine hours of sleep to feel pretty well rested. So that's already like a huge detriment getting one hour less of sleep and especially parents who are sleep deprived constantly to get even that one extra hour lost can Be a huge impact on someone like being able to function today specifically. So sleep is a huge thing that is really affected by daylight savings time. And then that goes into a whole lot of other things so as a psychiatrist, I talk about the basics you know, basic human necessities. Everyone needs these kinds of things in like a hierarchical level. And that is, you know, how good nutrition food is definitely one aspect of it. So I talk about that And then another aspect is getting good sleep and sleep hygiene and then a roof over your head and socialization is the other aspect of it. But like every human being has a few basic necessities and those are one of the few. So if one of them are off, it's probably going to throw off every other aspect of, you know, what that person's going through in general for their homeostasis. And that in turn can affect mental health, like causing depression, anxiety, et cetera. So for daylight savings in particular with sleep, even one thing being off I've had a lot of patients mentioned in the past, like how it can make them feel a little bit discombobulated or a little bit off early, even feeling a little bit more down or anxious. And they were kind of not sure why. And I'm going to say, even honestly today myself, when I was going out to lunch, like I usually have regular Sunday routine, meeting up with family, going to lunch, that type of thing. And I was walking around and I was like, why do I feel so weird? And it's like literally one hour, but that one hour really made a difference for whatever reason.

Kerry: 4:55

Yeah, it really does. Yeah. And I mean, I would, especially in your shoes with a six month old, like, you know, every, every minute matters, I feel like of sleep. So it can really throw off the regular routine, the schedule. And that's something that, you know, really helps regulate our hormones and everything as well. And sometimes I talk about like adjusting sleep with patients, right? So if you're not sleeping enough, or you're staying up too late, like, How do you incrementally adjust? And usually we recommend 15 minute increments of improvement. And here we are jumping a whole hour, which really, yeah, throws us off even more. So I guess you're saying that it can impact anxiety and depression as well. Is any of that related to like maybe seasonal affective disorder or the sunlight or anything like that?

Marie: 5:38

I would say that is definitely something to take into consideration. In Florida maybe we're not noticing the sea- so I will say honestly, moving down to Florida region, I don't see seasonal affective disorder as much, but I think it's still definitely something that does happen. And it's related to like vitamin D exposure, like sunlight exposure. But I think that is something that can affect Depression and anxiety. But I would say, you know, it's kind of interesting that I would think maybe the opposite because what daylight savings you're supposed to have, like more kind of exposure to sun in general. But so that is something interesting. But I would say that I think that it might just be related to the disruption in the routine, which I think is a huge factor that contributes to people feeling a little bit off. And like, I feel like that feeling a little bit off is something like in, in terms of stability that can be like, okay, someone's feeling pretty normal, pretty regular, something like throwing a wrench in their routine can be like, oh, okay, now my day's slightly a little bit different, especially for people who struggle with like neurodivergence, like ADHD and autism, like any sort of change in their routine can make them feel really discombobulated in a sort of way. So I think that that's probably what can affect depression and anxiety the most. Like that difference in their life that while is really subtle can just, just impact them in like a small way that kind of compounds and like, okay, the sleep and now my schedule is off and now my day is a little bit off. And now I have to get adjusted to everything else going on.

Kerry: 7:10

Do you think it also can affect, like, behavior of children and, you know, kind of getting off their schedule in that way, too? Like,

Marie: 7:18

Oh, yeah. Mm hmm. I definitely think so. So a child adolescent population, not even the kids with ADHD and autism because I will say structure and routine is huge for them. But any kid in general, just because so going back to the basics. It's like sleep if they're like, Oh, yeah. Feeling really tired that day because they weren't paying attention because it's daily savings. They're probably going to be either extra cranky the next day, a little bit more irritable. So then, of course, they're probably going to be acting out more, a little bit more angry, you know, yelling, or like even hungry, eating, all of these things that I think such a small thing can have have these big impacts. So I think it's something that can definitely affect kids behaviors.

Kerry: 7:58

I can see it in my own house today for sure, but like, definitely affected behaviors, because the grandparents were watching the kids last night, we stayed out late, and then, you know, they, I'm sure they stayed up late as well, and then they got up. at a regular time and I see little bags under their eyes. They're tired and then definitely acting out. So I definitely think it affects the behavior as well. I agree with that. So what else can you tell us about, I don't know, the time change and everything that can affect mental health? Is there anything that we missed?

Marie: 8:28

So I would say, yeah, well, just like in general for the time change. So affecting sleep, you know, affecting routines transitions. And then, so when I talk about like mental health, so depression, anxiety, people feeling a little bit anxious in general. So not only just the time change, but sometimes this is something that can signify like different seasons. So sometimes people are feeling a little bit more anxious when it's like, okay, like, so it's the switch from winter into spring and then, like, kind of thinking about the future. So that's, like, kind of more like a medic cognitive kind of aspect to the daylight savings. So that, okay, no. So now there's, like, a transition in the season almost. Like, what does that lead for me kind of in the next few months? And that that is something when they can relate to having concerns about feeling a little bit more anxious about the future or things that might be coming up.

Kerry: 9:18

Okay. So yeah, like planning on future and forward thinking. Yeah. Okay. Wow. So any, anything else you think that can be affected?

Marie: 9:27

What the daylight savings in particular. So I mean, I think, honestly, it's just mostly going to be related to the sleep disruption transitions changes, having a little bit more anxiety, depression. Actually, I was reading a study Of a few years ago or so, but it was saying that around daylight savings time, both winter and spring that there was like 11 percent increase in hospital like inpatient psychiatric hospitalizations during this time. So that actually can be related to the more severe psychiatric disorder. So, you know I would say for like, I'm an outpatient psychiatrist, so I mostly see, you know, depression, anxiety, OCD, ADHD, that type of thing. But for more severe psychiatric disorders like schizophrenia, bipolar I can see and I think this is still related to transitions and difficult and difference in like changing with the exposure to sunlight and sleep, but how there are increases in psychiatric hospitalizations during the time change. So it is just like that small like while it might seem like such a small thing that one hour. Kind of interesting how it can really impact on that high of a level that people are either getting admitted to a psychiatric hospital a little bit more or actually feeling they need to bring it up with their psychiatrist or their therapist that they're feeling a little bit off with just this one hour time change, you know.

Kerry: 10:48

Well, what's interesting is that we keep doing it every year, you know, twice a year. So why, why do we keep doing it? You know, and every year, the Wall Street Journal and all the, you know, newspapers write like the same articles every year of why are we doing this? I mean, if it's increasing hospitalization and, you know, throwing everybody off, I don't know if there's, you know, enough benefit to keep doing it, but here we are and we do. Yeah.

Marie: 11:11

I was curious about that the other day, actually, and I think I'd read something where a few years ago, actually, I'm not, not actually sure. So don't hold me on this specifically, but they actually tried to not implement the daylight savings. And then I forgot if it was like in a town specifically, but they tried to not do it. They went. Eight months and then they're like, no, we got to get it back in. And then I think basically it was just the impact with the exposure to sunlight, like the people didn't really notice that big of an impact until they weren't getting it without the time change. So I don't know why I was reading something about that yesterday where they're like, they actually tried to get rid of it and somewhere it was somewhere in the U S because, you know, a lot of different countries, especially around the equator, that they're not really doing daylight savings time, but why, why they're still doing it, but I guess they tried to get rid of it, but people still wanted it. So maybe that's why doing it.

Kerry: 12:05

Where I went to college, we did not change times, being home did, but then, where I went to college, they didn't change times. I mean, I'm assuming because it's a big farming area, but I thought it was nice, you know, but I don't, I don't remember if it was daylight savings or the Eastern Standard or, you know Which one? But I think it's obviously was for the farmers because it's a big farming area. I went to in school in Indiana. So yeah, they didn't ever change time. And I don't know if there's any studies about, you know, their particular location, because it'd be a great place to figure that out, you know.

Marie: 12:35

do you feel any different with not having that time change when you were going to college or not really?

Kerry: 12:43

That was too long ago, unfortunately. My memory of that kind of thing is gone. I'm sure I was sleep deprived and doing whatever, so I don't really remember if it affected me or not, but it was probably, I don't know. It didn't have to change time, so it probably wasn't a factor, you know?

Marie: 13:01

yeah. I don't know, like, I feel like everywhere that I've been. So I've been mostly East Coast New Jersey Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, now Florida. And like, I think everywhere that I've lived has participated in daylight savings. Well, I did live in the Philippines for a few years, but they didn't do it there But it's not not even a thing. So no one even paid attention to it.

Kerry: 13:23

Well, that's a good point. I would say I think it's interesting though the how spring break did well, like for the public schools in our area are happening beyond that. So that's really nice that they are coinciding and not going to affect them as much. I think that's good. Yeah.

Marie: 13:37

Yeah

Kerry: 13:38

Well, I think the other thing that we kind of wanted to touch upon today was social media in children. So where do you want to start with that?

Marie: 13:47

so basically for social media and kids I think it's such a mixed bag just because there can be so many good and bad things with social media and just like anything else nothing is completely all good or bad. So for the positive aspects of social media, and this is something like this is discussion I have a lot with different patients and their parents and that social media can be good for a bunch of reasons like, awareness. So, like I know you're on the social media sphere. I'm in the social media sphere. I'm very new to the social media sphere within my practice, but there are so many things that you can do with social media that can be good. Like education awareness about different topics, so as a psychiatrist, I do a lot of mental health related topics. And then just being able to spread that educational awareness is huge for people who might like, especially kids, who might not even be really looking for that. But then they're like, Oh, like this is actually something interesting to learn about. Or like, I'm not alone when I'm feeling this way, like feeling a little bit anxious or depressed. So that's how I think social media can be really good. And then also a sense of community. So, social media, people can be involved in different communities where they feel like they're part of something just like when people are in different communities for like hobbies that they're interested in, like things that they can relate to, or like different clubs that they're in. So I feel like social media is a way that people can feel connected to others, even though they might be in their own home. Doing whatever but like feeling connected to other people and not necessarily having to be in the same kind of space and then yeah, so yeah, I mentioned feeling community, education, awareness, and I think there's a few other good things about social media, but there are a lot of bad things that happen because what happens is that a lot of times, When kids get like their phones or their iPads or whatever taken away from them, that's when they can get upset, a little bit more frustrated, or they don't like when limitations are set. But I think that's something especially for parents who have kids who are involved in social media to keep an eye on that just because there is such a thing as too much of a good thing, right? So like, if a kid is on Never ending social media, like scrolling on TikTok all day. That's not gonna be good for them just because the amount of things that they can be exposed to is a little bit more questionable. Like, especially if there aren't, like, parental restrictions on it. You know, basically the internet is such a free for all that unless you have, kind of like, the parent locks on it, your kid can be looking at like anything. So just the wide net of anything that the kid can be exposed to can be pretty scary. And then the other aspect of it as well, it can cultivate like a sense of community and like people like getting to be part of hobbies, like or discussing hobbies, things that they enjoyed together. On social media, sometimes that can interfere with people wanting to get together in real time or in real life because they're like, Oh, well, I'm already kind of talking to people online. But I will say that I do think that there is a difference in the ability to connect when it is only virtual versus in person, because that is a skill that was lost a little bit during the pandemic. And I will say that's something that I came across for a lot of the child adolescent patients that I was seeing specifically after the pandemic in that they went to school, got displaced from school, had to do everything online, then they had to go back to school, but they're kind of like, okay, I haven't been in school for like a year or two years. And I was like, I don't know how to talk or interact with people anymore, so then it was just a little bit more scary and anxious and like having to be reintroduced to that in general. So that's another way that I think social media can be bad. And then also there's like a whole lot of other negative aspects of social media, like cyberbullying, you know, people what is it keyboard warriors, where people might feel like they can comment or say something negative about someone, but feel because they're saying it online, they're protected. So I'm not sure if you've ever experienced this yourself. I haven't yet, but when someone I feel like is always going to have potentially something negative to say, if you put yourself out in the social media sphere, while you could just be with Facebook page, like when it is something that is more public Like for your clinic or something along those lines, you know, sometimes some people might have some sort of vendetta against. Oh, there's this doctor. I don't like what they're talking about. So I'm going to say something negative in this comment. And, you know, not being able to have any control over that either. Like these people who, you know, feel like they can say whatever they want without any repercussions because they are just saying it from the safety of their homes So, that that can be a negative aspect of social media and then something that i've also talked about on tiktok one of my patients specifically, the addiction to tiktok and the tiktok so many good and bad things but the the short form videos in particular Can have an addictive nature because of the increase of dopamine when like people are interacting with these short form videos So that's why you keep kind of scrolling. That's why you keep looking because you're getting these like short bursts of dopamine but then at the same time too, that's something can actually impair attention in general because your brain gets used to like Oh, i'm used to getting this like new and exciting information very fast very quickly So once you're used to that format When you actually have to sit for a 45 minute, hour long, two hour long class, it makes it just so much more difficult. So that can be a negative aspect of social media, especially the short form ones where so much information can be exciting, can be educational, being able to spread awareness being able to foster community. But, you know, is it taking away other aspects of in person socialization? The ability to be able to have longer, more meaningful discussions that aren't just This 60 second time limit, 90 second time limit, and then, being able to have a meaningful discussion after that, or the ability to pay attention after that 90 second time frame.

Kerry: 19:52

Yeah, I mean, I definitely agree. It can be very useful for, you know, getting information out there. You always want to make sure, you know, you know where your sources are coming from. And it can also like you kind of said, it was interesting. I was validating some people's feelings and emotions too. But then obviously there's that negative aspect, right? That can come from like making you feel bad because people only put what's perfect out there, right? And you measure up your own life against what you see on the social media. And it's usually not like the full picture. And I think that's always a big I guess thing that people always think about when they think about how social media can be not useful for, especially for someone with anxiety or depression and things like that. And then obviously you mentioned like the pandemic having a big, big impact on, you know, everybody's social lives. And like, I guess social media could have been a good thing in that sense with the fostering the community, right? You have a Facebook group that you're a part of because you're interested in this or whatever other app that they could be that you could be in like a group and, you know, responding and kind of engaging with other people and meeting other people. So while it's offered I think a lot of pluses, you know, during the pandemic, I think, you know, I always got to be, you know, wary of where all these people are because not everybody can be who they say they are. And that's something that we were recently at a thing at our school talking about, like security and safety with social media and kids. And they were really focusing on the dangers of it too, because you Just because you're in some group for kids doesn't mean that that person in your that group is also a kid. Right. So it can be pretty scary with things that can happen with that have you had any like clients or patients that have any experiences like that?

Marie: 21:42

So I will say personally, I have not had patients say anything negative to that extent, but I will say that I've had patients who have a little bit anxiety about getting like scammed or that they that like they might be targeted by clicking on like some sort of scam online. I have one patient who has a lot of anxieties about and phobias about a lot in general, but when when it comes to like social media, she would be extra cautious about putting things online because she was afraid that they would like take all of her information and share it. And then I think also with you know, how there have been like, breaches of like people like iPhones and like photos so like really really worried that people would get their information and spread all of their personal photo and data's online so that's something that I've come across specifically oh and also people What was it? People getting canceled. Nowadays. So people like, I guess canceled like people who can be, you, you mentioned about like almost influencers or like having their idealized version of themselves. But then it's so easy on social media for Someone's opinion of you to change just by one piece of information getting out there So someone having a negative opinion on you and then all the social media decides, okay Actually we thought you're good before but maybe you're not so good anymore. So that's actually something that i've had A few of my clients talk about specifically like in the social media sphere where there was like a negative opinion about them and then it really actually affected their, their mental health just because it caused a lot of anxiety panic attacks just because like when you are in social media, when you are can be in that public sphere. It's just like you're vulnerable in a way just because so many people feel like even though they don't necessarily know you in person that they can have opinions about you or talk to you directly or put you down or say negative things about you. So the good and bad, like being able to talk about all the good things, spreading awareness, education, community, but then the negative aspects of it to and I think that even goes to how like celebrity culture and how it probably started from there, right? Like social media and then kind of trickling down to everyone else and then showing your idealized version of yourself. Cause I will say that to my patients too. Like it's so easy to compare it to someone showing them on vacation or having their best lives ever or eating at these fabulous restaurants, but no one's really taking pictures or showing videos of them. Like, At home covered in like, you know, baby food or like their house is a mess. Like no one's really showing that type of stuff. So,

Kerry: 24:24

Yeah, no, they definitely don't. So from your like professional standpoint, is there an appropriate age for children to start using social media or what do you normally suggest?

Marie: 24:35

So I usually suggest like Around the adolescent time frame is when I'd say that's when it can be a discussion between that child adolescent and the parent just because and that would typically be somewhere around like 13, 14 age range, you know, they're getting into high school. And I mean, I know that can sound conservative. So I will definitely say I know kids younger than that, who can be on social media, but then at the same time, too, What do they really need to be on it for, like, younger than that age? Like, they're basically talking to their family, maybe their friends, but whatever that parent is okay with, like, you know, if they're having limitations on their texting availability, but at the same time, do they really need to be on it? On TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, like, do they actually really need to be on those platforms under the age of 13 or 14? Most likely not. Well, I would say, you know, not every parent feels the same way. I don't think it's a necessity. While my kids might want it, it's not 100 percent needed either.

Kerry: 25:36

No, definitely not. I mean, my suggestion is postpone it as long as possible. Like, don't allow it. And then the biggest thing is putting in those parental controls and restrictions if you can. And I don't know if you know anything about Snapchat, but when, when this security guy came in with his expertise on social media, he was saying how, just like, how crazy Snapchat is. And that's the one that, like, gives your location on things. And that's how, like, people can find you physically. And it's pretty scary that, some perpetrator could be trying to meet some, you know, elementary school kid or middle school kid by because they thought they were talking to a friend and they're giving away their location. So it's pretty, pretty terrifying to think that these kind of things are possible. So that's why I said, I really don't. think that it's necessary at all. I will say some of those things that they have those gaming interaction things and you can, that's still a form of social media as well. And people think that they're playing with their friends and things like that. And usually that, I don't know, I think that's a little bit more. Allowed, I would say, so that they can, you know, engage in that, and I think it definitely, you know, helps some people during the pandemic as well, that it's another way of outreach when they don't have these other types of social media thing. I still think that counts as social media, and it seems a little bit safer, though, if you're giving away any personal information, that's not You also mentioned the addiction part and the time wasting and like, can you, it's not great for kids and adolescents learning to set goals and get work done because if they have access to these things, they're just sucking away their time in there with, like you said, getting dopamine hit after dopamine hit.

Marie: 27:17

Mm hmm.

Kerry: 27:18

really hard to shut it down. So, I, I usually am, you know, not for the kids as long as possible, as you possibly can, and then getting in there with the parental controls for sure if possible. And the problem is, is they all change and you can like look up how to get around these controls too. So even if you may put them on their phones or something like that, they can like look on some YouTube thing and say, how do you get around this? So it's pretty, pretty scary. And it changes. So fast. So whatever I would say now could be totally different and you really just have to keep updated on it. And, you know, attend some things like we had at our school that really help, you know, educate the parents because we just don't know really what's out there and how bad things can be. I think it's pretty important, but yeah, I mean, I, they, I think it's interesting how you did bring up a lot of the positive aspects too. I would just, save them for the older people.

Marie: 28:14

Yeah, yeah. I mean, honestly, kids can be so tech savvy nowadays that even, yeah, you'd mentioned putting on the control, like, so I do think that's definitely a necessary step, but kids can be so savvy nowadays. And even like the game, so like the role playing games where it is a form of social media, I think that it, that is definitely something that should be included in that platform and that how I think it can be helpful. But this is also something where as a parent, if you're noticing that your kids are engaging in these role player games to still have that awareness of like, okay, they say they're talking to a kid. Have they ever actually talked to them? Like, because again, do you know if they're actually talking to a kid or someone else, right? Essentially. So doing your due diligence if your kid is involved in any sort of social media. So I mean I agree in that as long as possible, but I will also say honestly in our day and age kids are so So like oh, I know everyone isn't like on you know on these different platforms So it is really hard to keep them away But yeah, I I definitely think that as long as possible is going to be the best option But in any case if they need an exact timeline Probably, you know, in their later years, like probably when they're hitting around high school age, because at that point, there's a whole lot of other transitions going on that parents are gonna be having to deal with at that time too.

Kerry: 29:34

Yeah. I think the other thing is like parents educating them on that social media kind of lasts forever. You put yourself out there saying whatever, and it can come back and haunt you years later when you're trying to, you know, run for government or anything like that, or when you're trying to get into a college or something like that. And they can find it. Put it out there somewhere else. And there you are. And you might've said something silly, then it came out of context and, you know, it can really affect your future. So I think it's, it's important for education on that too. And really just having that conversation of, just try to be wary of what you're actually putting out there.

Marie: 30:14

yeah, you reminded me I actually have had a few patients like younger kids who have posted some things that were not so smart to have posted on social media. And that have gotten them in trouble and so that is definitely something to think about like the long term repercussions because this is all going to back to kids and like frontal lobe not really being developed. So really, maybe not making the most smart decisions and then doing these things and then having to deal with the repercussions later. But that's actually something that I have come across in my practice. A few times. So,

Kerry: 30:48

Yeah. Yeah. What would you have anything else to say about cyber bullying and how we can prevent it or anything else? Absolutely.

Marie: 30:58

bullying, I will say that is honestly for prevention. That is really hard to do, you know, for the other parties aspect, but I would say as a parent, and you know, that would probably come from you educating your kids on the appropriate use of social media, understanding what it is potentially becoming an addiction. And when I say an addiction, like needing to be on their phone. And I will say, okay, I know kids nowadays are glued to their devices, but you know, setting appropriate boundaries, like, okay, you can only have it during you know, this time to this time after school, when homework is done, definitely not the last two hours before bed, because that's something I come across frequently, because it can be stimulating, you know, that dopamine release also activating your brain. So that When you're actually trying to go to bed. So many people tell me that they scroll, like so many of my patients tell me they scroll TikTok before bed and I'm like, okay, now you know why you can't go to bed for the extra two hours is because you're scrolling on TikTok and you're stimulating your mind and you're enjoying all these things. So yeah, at least two hours before bed at having these restrictions about social media use in general, being smart about it. Like if they're going to use it, they have to use it appropriately or else maybe it can't be used in general. And then also just. Educating them about when they are on social media, like appropriate uses, what they should or shouldn't post you know, privacy aspects and ultimately their safety, like, okay, not sharing their personal information to just anyone out there. And I, I think that should be a discussion that they should have together so that the family can decide whether it is appropriate or not for their kid to be using social media. And if they are, what that's going to look like. Yeah,

Kerry: 32:32

I feel terrible forgetting the guy's name who came and spoke to the school, but I'll have to look it up and put it in our show notes. But he also mentioned really collecting the electronics before bedtime

Marie: 32:43

I'm

Kerry: 32:44

because that's when they end up like getting all that exposure of things that are inappropriate or that's what's just when things happen. So collecting by the bedtime, turning off the wifi, whatever you got to do to make it not work like right before bedtime. So they can't be using it while you're asleep. So not no electronics basically in the room where they can, you know, get into trouble really. So I thought that was a really good thing he mentioned too.

Marie: 33:08

Mm hmm. I definitely recommend it. Like, yeah, putting it in like either your room somewhere they can't access or like turning off the wifi as necessary. I think we're all good tips because kids are savvy. So they might try to find a way to sneak it. So sometimes you do have to get these little extra precautions, but I think they can go a big way.

Kerry: 33:24

Yeah. Well, anything else you'd like to share about social media at all, like with kids and adolescents?

Marie: 33:31

Yeah, so I will say as much as I would try to not have kids exposed as much as possible. I think that ultimately social media is here to stay. So while you know, I definitely think prolonging as much as possible is the best option. If not, Just educating, you know, safety around correct and appropriate social media use is going to be most appropriate and beneficial for parents when they're navigating, okay, my kid wants to get on social media. What should I do next?

Kerry: 33:59

Yeah, no, I agree. Educating, you know, the parent and the child and trying to keep up with it, which is going to be impossible, but just, I guess, doing your best to know what tricks and things there are out there that have came up that have changed things that makes things more dangerous. It's very important to just becoming aware of these things. Yeah, I agree. But like you said, it's definitely here to stay and it can be a useful tool. Obviously, but just being smart about it, I think it's important. Yeah.

Marie: 34:30

definitely.

Kerry: 34:32

So where can people find you if they want to work with you?

Marie: 34:35

So I have a website. It's my well, my clinic is called Dona wellness clinic. So that's my last name. So Marie Dona, so it's D O N a and then the wellness clinic. W E L L N E S S C L I N I C dot com. So that's the website donawellnessclinic. com. I'm also on Facebook, facebook. com slash donawellnessclinic, Instagram and dot com slash donawellnessclinic. And then I'm also trying to get myself more established on TikTok, actually just for the informational purpose, just because I feel like there's just there's so much information about mental health in general that just needs to be out there because I get all the time. Oh, like what happens when I see a psychiatrist and then a meeting with me and I'm like, Oh, that's simple. Like, you know, psychiatrists aren't scary people. They're here to help you. So I feel like just kind of getting that information out there can be so helpful and beneficial for people. And I think it's because right where doctors were in this profession. So we're like, Oh, this is all easy and basic stuff, but actually it's not. So that's where they can find me either Facebook. Instagram, TikTok, and and they can always like call or email the clinic as well, but all that information is on my website.

Kerry: 35:42

Perfect. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. This was a lot of fun very pertinent discussions and I appreciate your time and especially on a Sunday when we're recording and yeah, thank you so much. And we will put all that in the show notes and everybody if stay tuned for next week. Okay.

Marie: 36:00

Thank you so much for having me on, Dr. Reller.

Kerry: 36:02

You're welcome.